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What was the line in the last Tse script? Maybe Snyder was "obligated" to film the shooting script, but then could do alternate takes. For these "alternate" takes he chose to use the lines in the GN with the intent of making sure that was the take used in the final film.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

Well, all I am saying is that so far the total lack of understanding being demonstrated regarding Rorschach indicates there is potential for the film to fail horribly. The difference between us is wild optimism and resigned pessimism.

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I think that assessment is unfair.

You're basing your opinion on hearsay more or less.

I've visited the set, spoke personally to Snyder and members of the cast and crew several times. With just that much more information, I'm way more optimistic than you are.

I could only imagine if I had spent a week on the set and spoke to everyone a dozen or more times I'd feel even better.

The evidence does point to those who have seen and heard more, saying better things about the film.

I'm not saying there's no need to worry at all or that there won't be changes/additions that will irk some fans, but overall, I really believe we'll be satisfied.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

DDC, some people are just apparently wired to be pessimistic

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Nope. I am basing it on what I have seen in trailers, and a report by an extra in the film, posted on this site. And on that basis, I am near enough 90% happy that the makers of this film have demonstrated (so far) that they have no idea about who or what Rorschach is in the GN, which makes me less than optimistic about the overall film.



Appreciate what you're trying to say, but cast and crew members are hardly going to pull someone to one side on a set visit and whisper "Psssst! This film is gonna be shite! They're missing the point completely!", are they?

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He's speaking of his overall impression of the film based upon what he personally has seen, heard and witnessed... not just what others have told him. And, remember, DDC is also among those who has seen 25 minutes of the film.

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That's fine. I am basing MY impression on what I have seen and heard. I might not have seen the 25 minutes worth of footage, but all the 25 minutes proves - at best - is that the opening ten minutes is good, the Manhattan on Mars is pretty good, and the jail scene is OK. That says nothing about the rest of the film. From what I have heard and seen regarding the rest of the film, it looks like they are making some pretty big mistakes and taking some serious liberties. Snyder is awesome at nigh-on duplicating comic book panels in live action (see 300), but when it comes to picking up on the greater themes, meanings and subtext, I don't think he's 'all that', as the kids do say.

I hope I am wrong; I really do, but just because we are finally getting a Watchmen film, doesn't mean I have to be grateful and excuse all kinds of omissions and pointless embellishments, just to see it on the big screen.

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Again, you're guessing at what my set visit was like and assuming they put on some sort of "don't peek behind the curtain" propaganda show.

I had full access everywhere while everyone was working - from the costume department, animation department, set while there were shooting, all of the crew and actors - I had access like I worked there. There was nowhere for anyone to hide or any way they could just show me what they wanted too.

You've heard a few things and decided they fucked up Rorschach. That's your call to do so.

I spoke to Haley for a half hour very candidly about the character and know he has an excellent handle on it.

You're within you right to pass judgement on the little you've seen and heard so far - some of which is open to some interpretation. As I an within my right to say you should wait to see more.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

That's good; glad for you. But the amount of access you had means nothing; you're very much mistaken if you think anyone working on the film would risk being quoted (anonymously or otherwise) as saying the film was shite.



OK; I have SEEN (not heard) a few things which is making me think they have fucked up Rorschach. OK, I haven't spoke to Haley personally, but let me ask you this - how much have you actually seen of Rorschach in the film? Probably only seconds to a minute more than me, given that in the 25 mins screened he only appears at the end of the jail footage?

Given what we HAVE seen, do you think they have made the right choices? I don't care about talking to the actor about what he thinks; it's what's on screen that counts.

Do YOU think Rorschach should be shown bouncing up from a 25 foot fall and destroying 8 coppers carrying truncheons, with his bare hands in a 'beautifully choreographed fight scene'? Is that a faithful interpretation of the GN?

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Rorschach looks pretty good (still not sure why he's so small when he wears lifts, but anyway), sounds pretty good. But on at least two occasions the film (unless set reports and extras reports are bullshit) diverts from canon. Now I hate that expression because it sounds so Trekkie anal, but when it comes to Rorschach and the fact that, in the one instance we're losing two bits of character detail (the Landlady scene, we assume, will be cut as Rorschach is already in costume at the jail, and then there's the fact it's Rorschach not Walter that whacks Big Figure- ignoring for a second it's a cool visual anyway) and also extending a scene to what appears an illogical conclusion it annoys me. The studio feels the scene needs more action? Stick the fight in the apartment. Give Rorschach some more SWAT to deal with before he jumps out the window. Don't put it after a fall from a 3rd or 4th floor window. It's taking one of the more grounded of the 'heroes' and turning him into a DC comic hero.

Anyway, we wait to see........

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Is this serious? Or are you just doing an impersonation of a firebrand preacher going for the Hyperbole of the Year Award? It almost frightens me that somebody out there is capable of hearing that Rorschach fights with the police after he jumps out of the window, and jumps to the conclusion that it's going to be a redux of that fight between Neo and all the Agent Smiths in the second Matrix movie. If you can hear that, and assume that Rorschach is going to be roundhouse-kicking cops twenty feet and close-lining half a SWAT team, I would call your water company and make sure there's not anything leaking into the pipes.

Let me ask you this: how much footage of Jackie Earle Haley's performance have you seen? Um, part of me wants to say 4 seconds? But I'll even go willy-nilly and say you've seen six. So, between the man who's had unfettered access to the set, talked to the actor in question about his performance, and has had a half-an-hour of footage shown to him, and the man who's possibly seen and/or heard six seconds of a performance, I'm leaning towards . . .

Yeah.

You've seen the same snippets as everybody else, but congratulations on reaching a conclusion that nobody else has. You don't get extra points for being overly bellicose or dramatic, by the way. If I wanted to, I could bitch, too:

"oMg! I can't believe they're gonna overplay Manhattan in Vietnam! I bet they're gonna show like ten minutes of him zapping Viet Cong and totally just make it gay and slow-mo! Snyder's prolly gonna make it like this homo Godzilla thing. This movie's gonna blow! But i'm still going to see it . . ."

You can pick anything you want and magnify it times ten, exaggerate, and gripe about what you think will happen. Or you can just admit to yourself that you're nobody special and don't know anything more about what will happen than does anybody else.

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He did it.

It's not just what they said - it's what I saw, experienced and lived in for about seven hours on the set. Add to that several other conversations with Gibbons and Snyder, other folks connected to or near the production, what I saw at Comic-Con and at the 25 minutes of footage - it starts to add up. It's all of that which has me more confident than you on what the final result will be. Again, the key is more confident, not 100% confident.

It would be like you saying Disneyland sucks because a friend of yours said that Space Mountain was lame. Not really enough info to base an opinion on. Not that what I've been exposed to is enough either, but it's allot more than most have been exposed to outside of those who made the film.


The key here is that the scene was described by one extra who was there. We don't really know how it plays out. I'm sure he could speak to your concerns more than I can as he was there, but even if he does clarify - it's his opinion. If he thinks the scene works, he'll describe it in a positive light, if he doesn't he'll make it sound like shit - kinda like how you did above.

If your in the camp that feels he should be captured right after the fall, then yes, it's safe for you to say you feel they ruined the essence of the character in that scene. But if they got every other scene 99% right for you, in those scenes you haven't seen, that one extra fight may not matter to you anymore when you take in the "big picture."

Or, maybe if you don't mind if there's a fight as long as it's not overdone, too cartoony, or drawn out, that could still be the case because we haven't seen it to really know what it really looks like.

The way you phrase it as "bouncing up" and "destroying 8 coppers," it may not be that extreme. Rorschach may be scrambling like a cornered animal and get a few good shots in before being overwhelmed - I don't think that's bad at all - it may even add to the drama of the scene - who knows?

Not saying you're wrong - just saying there's not enough concrete, or even circumstantial, evidence to prove you right either.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

I think you guys are taking Rorschach, "taking on 8 cops" a little too literally. From the description the extra gave, it sounds like it'll take like 15 seconds tops for the scene to playout. It's not like he's(to reiterate) taking on 100 agent Smiths in some bad fucking ass fight scene. The guy even mentioned it's a very quick scene.

Satan's bike wrote:

'Appreciate what you're trying to say, but cast and crew members are hardly going to pull someone to one side on a set visit and whisper "Psssst! This film is gonna be shite! They're missing the point completely!", are they?'

I worked at Weta when they were in production on King Kong. The levels of enthusiasm and dedication to production roles on a job like that, when you know you are involved on a property precious to the hearts of yourself and others... people in those kinds of creative positions aren't spinning you a line o' bullshit when they enthuse about the work they are doing. They are giving it 150% and doing the best work that they are capable of. They are working on spirited productions in positions that other people would kill for... and their attitude ensures the work arrives on screen as best it can be.

To imagine technicians and artists on set are capable of doing bollocks PR in an off-the-cuff manner simply to hype a website's opinion... lordy. Bitter viewpoint.

These people are getting paid either way. They're not given money based on how enthusiastic they come across to visitors of the set, they're getting paid to sew costumes, or adjust lighting, or get coffee, or whatever the hell they do. You think the key grip on Gigli was stoked and excited getting up to go to work everyday? Probably not, but he got paid all the same. People are excited by Watchmen because of what they see everyday when they go to work. It's not as if they're putting up a front because they're afraid WB is going to scan their thoughts and cut their pay. People try to say the same thing about Dave Gibbons, that he's only as involved in the project as he is because he wants to sell more copies of Watching the Watchmen, which is ridiculous because only people like us are going to buy it. Gibbons would be getting the same amount of money if he just stayed in England and shit-talked the film like Moore is. He's entitled to that money, whatever his opinion. His drawing new storyboards and concept art and everything else he's doing for the film is because he likes what he sees and wants to be a part of it.

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He did it.

No, a better analogy would be me saying Space Mountain may tarnish my enjoyment of Disneyland because footage I have seen of it sucks and I have read reports from people who have been, and it in no way resembles the orginal plans for Space Mountain; which I have read many times.





Can I direct you (again) to the quote from the extra - we'll call it 'eye-witness testimony' if you like - who saw the scene being filmed, because it certainly sounds like you haven't read it:



Bolding is mine for emphasis.

So, in the words of someone who has seen more of Rorschach's performance than ALL of us: Rorschach jumps out of a window around 25 - 35 feet up, lands uninjured, then takes down eight coppers who all have batons. Ducking, lashing out, punching and kicking - sounds pretty agile; I mean there may even BE the odd roundhouse kick in there, eh? Now, if I was injured or fighting for my life - would I take the time to straddle a man who is already down to 'finish him off' or would I get the fuck out of there? Hmmmmm.

But, hey-ho, as I said from what I have seen/heard I am just prepared for the worst - I would love to be wrong.

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Rorschach getting up and fighting somebody is not exactly a radical departure from character, is it . . .

First off, Rorschach was not injured when he landed in the book, he just couldn't get up fast enough before he got driz-opped by a boot in his face. And your making it sound like he's going to be flipping bodies halfway down the block in an extended fight scene when the very quote you're using to back up your negativity about the scene says it plays out very quickly. So, he gets up, punches some cops, and finally gets taken down. What a drastic rewrite! Why don't they just put him in sunglasses and a black trench-coat!

And, please explain because I might need to know this one day, how would one go about trying to get the fuck out of dodge when you just hopped out a window into the middle of a SWAT team and barricade of cop cars.

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He did it.

Rorschach was not injured when he landed in the book?! Have you READ the book?! He couldn't get up because he'd injured his ankle - seriously, why am I even bothering addressing your points if you can't even remember simple details from the GN?! The whole point of that scene in the book is to humanize Rorschach, showing that he's NOT superhuman.

Well, according to the extra who saw the scene being filmed; the SWAT team he 'hops into', he takes down pretty quickly, and going by other footage we have seen, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to run up and over the top of a cop car, then perhaps up some handy scaffolding to safety, should it? But then, if you're trying to impose real world values on this scene anyway, I might ask how he manages to escape his jump out of the window uninjured in the first place?

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Wow! From about four pages after the Rumrunner leap:

He's in excellent physical shape despite a lot of bruises and lacerations mostly sustained during his arrest.

- Dr. Malcom Long.

Get owned. Nothing about a leg injury, anything. He's got a black eye. Do not tell me I don't know the book when you can't get it right. In prison, Kovacs has no problem walking around on his ankle, and he certainly has no problem during the prison riots offing Big Figure and his thug.

Even if he did have some incapacitating leg injury (that magically healed by the time he got to prison), if Snyder chose to change it for the movie, so what. Again, it does nothing to affect the character. He can fall, the cops might not get to him before he gets up, and he slaps some of them before finally being taken down. Again . . . what a radical departure from everything we know about Rorschach! He's punching people!

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He did it.

Jesus Christ. I give up. Yeah, you win the Internets.

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