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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:18 am 
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Wow. Looks like the script was pretty damn faithful before they started shooting. Thank you, The Guard, for the exhaustive summary.


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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:42 am 
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I'm disappointed that the origin of the mask is removed and Walter doesn't confront his landlady. Also, that the girl's killer is not handcuffed and burned alive.
Otherwise I liked it a lot except the ending of course, but hopefully they have changed some bits of it.


Last edited by Ninjet on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:59 am 
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I like what I'm hearing. And honestly, I'd prefer blue-lightning to Jonergy explosions, but whatever.

We should see the origin of Rorschach's face. We need an explanation as to why it moves like it does, if nothing else. And I'm not entirely pleased with the way he dispatches Gerald Grice. It seems too bland, too slasher. We should have the shock of the dead dogs being thrown through the window, followed by Rorschach's silent torture of his victim.

Still, I'm happy.


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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:02 pm 
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#1 defender wrote:
KenWMFan wrote:
Looks good. But would have liked to have seen Rorscach breaking fingers in happy harrys like he did in the GN.


Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm sure we have seen the finger breaking Happy Harry scene in one of the video journals, so it has at least been shot.


Not sure but I think the video is Rorscach and Roy Chess. In the video he closes Chess' hand around his glass. Thats also what he does in the GN so I think thats is whats from the video journal.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:06 pm 
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I'm very, very happy. This looks incredibly faithful; and from what we've heard, Zack stuck even closer to the book than this script did. (That's why I'm not worried about the "35 minutes ago" line).

Echoing the sentiments about Kitty Genovese and Rorschach handcuffing the man to the burning building being cut...but hey. I can live with it.

So very happy. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:06 pm 
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KenWMFan wrote:
Not sure but I think the video is Rorscach and Roy Chess. In the video he closes Chess' hand around his glass. Thats aslo what he does in the GN so I think thats is whats from the video journal.



Correct, it's not the first scene at the bar where R goes nuts all over pinky fingers. Here's hoping that Snyder shot the first Happy Harry's scene and that it will end up on the director's cut DVD at least. I don't see why he wouldn't... it's a simple scene, and he could have shot it right after this one.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:10 pm 
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Nice job Guard.
Maybe even a bit too detailed.
Anyway I still want to be acknowledged for the alternative energy stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:11 pm 
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Snyder has said many times that Adrian lives, so im not worrying too much about that. And in the new trailer we see what clearly looks like an explosion in New York, rather than a lightning storm, so Snyder has probably changed that aspect of this script as well. I really want the line to stay as "I did it 35 minutes ago" though. That line is iconic and a great moment in the novel. "I triggered it 35 minutes ago" just does not sound as good.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:56 pm 
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Quote:
Okay, here are my real problems with the script and the movie. I don't think they are too angry geek-ish.

The comic's clever use of the medium can't be duplicated onscreen, but its great characterization could be. Unfortunately, Snyder can't get convincing, human performances from actors, let alone the great performances that could really make this a great movie. He was also very concerned with saving money on the cast and not getting anyone too expensive, and while directors often are, this seems a shame.

Also, I'm doubtful that they'll keep enough of the lines that don't just move the plot forward, although we'll see.

I also noticed that he once again added plot for the female character, which wouldn't be bad, except it's a lame "girl power" plot, when the book makes it clear that maybe being a vigilante isn't such a good idea. Dan and Laurie continuing adventuring at the end seems more like sticking their heads in the sand and trying to continue with a childish fantasy (that also happens to turn them on) than anything heroic. Veidt makes the point that this kind of nonsense is obsolete. But it looks like a point of movie Laurie's character will be, in part, about how she learns how cool it is to kick a bunch of ass and be a superhero! Empowering! Who cares if it goes against the original message?

I'm most worried about Rorschach's character, especially from what we've found out lately...you could argue that he's the protagonist (and the "unreliable narrator") of the comic, but he seems to have been shunted aside in favor of a generic'ed up version of Dan the traditional hero who kills the evil villain and get the girl. Meanwhile, Adrian becomes a British Bond bad guy, and the whole movie warps into yet another Hollywood superhero picture that probably won't be terrible, but won't be noteworthy in any way.


I hate to say this, but these are my fears exactly.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:07 pm 
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Kovacs86 wrote:
Mr. Ex wrote:
There is a Ghost Rider comic on the newsstand -- all of the magazines and comics on the newsstand are from 1985 (how's that for attention to detail?).


Actually, it's piss-poor, considering the fact that superhero comics aren't around in the Watchmen universe. Pirate comics are what everyone reads, remember?


I always thought this was an exaggeration on Bernie's part. I don't think he means that they aren't around at all. They are, they just aren't popular or as popular as they used to be. Although one wonders the cultural reaction that the vigilante ban would have upon these kinds of comics; wouldn't they be banned too or deemed controversial?

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Last edited by TheMovieDude on Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:08 pm 
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Thanks Guard! You've brought us (me at least) a lot closer to being ready for this movie and the changes within it...it's good to hear that the changes aren't too big (apart from the ending, which we know is closer to the book than that)...
It's quite hard to interpret whether the news is good overall or bad. For example, I'm very glad to hear Malcolm Long is in it, and that there isn't a plot hole where Rorschach gets his costume, but I'm also saddened that Malcolm will be a 2 dimensional character...we'll have nothing to identify with him...he'll just be that asshole psychiatrist...oh well, better than nothing...
Not very, er, happy that Harry's only exists for a single scene. There's a great symmetry in the book to Rorschach's visit and return with Dan, and it adds significance to the place. But they might as well have used "McAnn's Bar"...

But, the changes are sensible and it sounds like they've done a good job. I hope the dialogue isn't too diluted... will have to see on March 6th!
One thing's for sure, though. This is undeniably the most faithful adap of a Moore comic.

P.S. As for Dr M talking to Veidt while having sex with Laurie...

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:08 pm 
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One other line I'd like to know if its in is "Why are so few of us left active, happy and without personality disorders?" I don't think this line was mentioned in the summary.

On explaining Rorschach's mask, it could be just a quick line or two in another scene. Mention how its from Docs technoligy, ect.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:03 pm 
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I like how what was taken out, was thoroughly taken out. A few things I like, a few things I don't. I'm not concerned about Adrian dying, because both Zack Snyder and Kevin Smith have made numerous comments to the contrary. But while on the subject of Kevin Smith, I distinctly remember hearing him mention on Smodcast, the sugar cubes. So we'll have to see how it all plays out in the end.

Thanks a ton, Guard. You've definitely given us a lot to talk about other than the goddamned squid.


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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:15 pm 
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I'm also hoping that the "I triggered it 35 minutes ago line" was changed by Snyder to the original line from the book. Not only because it sounds better, but also because of this:

"Triggered" implies "started", which could mean the act has been put into motion but could theoretically be stopped somehow. This is in direct contrast to "I did it", meaning IT IS DONE. When Adrian says this line to Dan and Rorschach in the book half of New York is already dead. It already happened. That's why "I did it..." is the only thing that even makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:31 pm 
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Comedian Carl wrote:
I'm also hoping that the "I triggered it 35 minutes ago line" was changed by Snyder to the original line from the book. Not only because it sounds better, but also because of this:

"Triggered" implies "started", which could mean the act has been put into motion but could theoretically be stopped somehow. This is in direct contrast to "I did it", meaning IT IS DONE. When Adrian says this line to Dan and Rorschach in the book half of New York is already dead. It already happened. That's why "I did it..." is the only thing that even makes sense.


You, sir, are quite correct.
Even V for Vendetta managed to pull it off....
"Triggered" completely ruins one of the best lines, and I sincerely hope that this was one of the instances where Zack thinks "The script sucks here, let's just play it by the book"
Same with "My face! Give it back!"

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:56 pm 
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Well, in the summary it says that Kovacs asks Long for his "face" back during the prison scene... so it appears as though Rorschach will be referring to it as his face throughout the movie. Happy.

Overall... this looks pretty good. It's always a good sign when you have to mention which scenes aren't in... and not which scenes are.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:20 pm 
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behemoth wrote:
And who the hell would play ping pong with Dr Manhattan?


Dr. Manhattan

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:22 pm 
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I miss Rorschach breaking the fingers in Happy Harry's.

Seriously that's my favourite part of the book. :|


#1 defender wrote:
#1 defender wrote:
KenWMFan wrote:
Looks good. But would have liked to have seen Rorscach breaking fingers in happy harrys like he did in the GN.


Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm sure we have seen the finger breaking Happy Harry scene in one of the video journals, so it has at least been shot.


Here it is:

Image

Image

The screens are from the beginning of journal #6. Check out this sites video journal section.


That's when he breaks the glass in the guys hand.


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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:03 pm 
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Hey, Guard, could you elaborate more on the attempted sex scene between Dan and Laurie in front of Veidt on the TV? That's such a great moment in the novel... I just want to make sure it's in tact.

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 Post subject: Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:41 pm 
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Kovacs wrote:
That's when he breaks the glass in the guys hand.


I see no glass.
I do, however, see what looks to be a man making an expression of pain after having his finger broken


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