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WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED
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Author:  SmilingSymmetry [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

I have realized I think, by now, what really will make or break the movie for me about Adrian's death. The actual yes or no of him dying does not matter. It is the way in which they show it. If it's:

Dan: "ZOMG heroic line!" *Heroic music playing*

Adrian: *Hit by owl rang* "UGH! Oh noes....bleh." *Dead*

Then it sucks, because it's destroying the essence of the story and TELLING the watcher what is right and wrong (besides degrading into the average good guy/bad guy thing).

For Adrian's death to work, it needs to be told in a way that says it's just what the characters are doing, not actually what is right or wrong. Dan snaps, so he kills Adrian. Cause and effect, not this is right and this is wrong. Plus, him snapping and killing Ozzy would actually underline the scale of the plot, so...

Author:  The Veidt Method [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

The only way Adrian's death would work would be suicide.

Author:  The Guard [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

Quote:
How does the script treat Hooded Justice? Is he still the first superhero, and Hollis Mason's inspiration? Is he still always out when Nelly calls? Is he still the reason Adrian fought Blake to begin with?


Hooded Justice is in the script, and he is the first costumed hero, but he never speaks. He's mostly alluded to. However, Snyder has said the sequence where Hooded Justice beats up Blake is in the movie.

Quote:
Also, is the flashback where Dr. Manhattan talks with Hollis when he gets his statue in?


This is seen during Manhattan's Mars flashbacks.

The writers are careful not to make Adrian's death "right or wrong". In fact, you could argue either of these for Dan's actions when he kills Adrian's.

But it's a moot point, as Snyder has apparently said he survives now.

Author:  BlackDoomShadow [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

Despite the fact that it's a moot point, how is Adrian's death done? Is it the Hayter "You never hear them coming *Owlrang* Ughghghghgh" death scene?

Author:  Lord Ruthven [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

Hmmm... so Ozymandias doesn't explain how Blake found out about his plan.
If Blake's drunken rant to Moloch has also been shortened, just when do we find out how Blake discovered the plot and put the pieces together?

Hopefully, in the film, Veidt does now explain how Blake discovered the plot. We know Veidt lives and the "blue lightening" idea that Tse had in his draft is no longer used. With that in mind, hopefully this plot-hole has also been filled.

Author:  The Guard [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

Quote:
Despite the fact that it's a moot point, how is Adrian's death done? Is it the Hayter "You never hear them coming *Owlrang* Ughghghghgh" death scene?


It's the Owlarang thing. Which is odd, because they took Tse's much, much cooler and bigger Owlship crashing through into Adrian sequence, and used the Owlarang again. But they trimmed and shortened it, so that it's almost nonexistent. I have always suspected it was written as a "placeholder" for what eventually went into the film.

Quote:
Hmmm... so Ozymandias doesn't explain how Blake found out about his plan.
If Blake's drunken rant to Moloch has also been shortened, just when do we find out how Blake discovered the plot and put the pieces together?


Blake was keeping tabs on the former heroes at Presidential request. He broke into Karnak and discovered what was going on there.

Quote:
Hopefully, in the film, Veidt does now explain how Blake discovered the plot. We know Veidt lives and the "blue lightening" idea that Tse had in his draft is no longer used. With that in mind, hopefully this plot-hole has also been filled.


The blue lightning and expanding explosion, as seen in the trailer, is almost exactly how it is described in the script. I think it's still there, just not sure in what form.

Author:  BlackDoomShadow [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

...wait, what "Owlship crashing into Adrian" thing? I never got to read Tse's draft before WB removed it.

EDIT: Never mind, I found info. That's really James Bond, remote-controlling the Owlship.

Author:  SmilingSymmetry [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

The Veidt Method wrote:
The only way Adrian's death would work would be suicide.


Uh...did you read the book? That is completely against his character. There's no motive for suicide.

Author:  vdtdcutd5145 [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

Quote:
Hopefully, in the film, Veidt does now explain how Blake discovered the plot. We know Veidt lives and the "blue lightening" idea that Tse had in his draft is no longer used. With that in mind, hopefully this plot-hole has also been filled.


Quote:
The blue lightning and expanding explosion, as seen in the trailer, is almost exactly how it is described in the script. I think it's still there, just not sure in what form.


Hmm...Well...I'm not sure what to think no about the ending...So we may get an odd Blue Lightning ending of sorts...What still isn't implied though is that it was Doc Manhattan's thing as Snyder hinted to previously. Unless the blue lightning itself is the only allusion.

I'm still left a bit unsure as to what Snyder has chosen for a WMD-of sorts and who gets the blame.

Author:  Opium Sandwich [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

I hate that they changed Rorschach's origin story. That was one of the things I was most looking forward to seeing on film.

Author:  Lord Ruthven [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

The Guard wrote:
Quote:
Hmmm... so Ozymandias doesn't explain how Blake found out about his plan.
If Blake's drunken rant to Moloch has also been shortened, just when do we find out how Blake discovered the plot and put the pieces together?


Blake was keeping tabs on the former heroes at Presidential request. He broke into Karnak and discovered what was going on there.


At which point in that script does it make this known to the audience, and how is it revealed? i.e. Who tells us that is what Blake was doing?

The owl ship, with it's advanced technology, can't withstand the conditions and has to crash land when it reaches Karnak. So how does Blake get there, break in then get back to the US?

The Guard wrote:
Quote:
Hopefully, in the film, Veidt does now explain how Blake discovered the plot. We know Veidt lives and the "blue lightening" idea that Tse had in his draft is no longer used. With that in mind, hopefully this plot-hole has also been filled.


The blue lightning and expanding explosion, as seen in the trailer, is almost exactly how it is described in the script. I think it's still there, just not sure in what form.


But from the trailer footage we see the expanding energy blast originate from ground level, with no lightning strike from above. In fact, the effects are exactly the same as when Dr. Manhattan teleports - this heavily suggests that there is no blue killer lightning in the film at all. Thankfully.

BlackDoomShadow wrote:
...wait, what "Owlship crashing into Adrian" thing? I never got to read Tse's draft before WB removed it.


It was an awful scene where Dan uses remote control to make Archie smash through the wall of Karnak and crush Veidt. Yes, even though Archie crash landed, it had enough left to be able to take out the "bad guy", action movie style!

Thank all that is Moore-shaped this scene has not been used :)

Author:  SmilingSymmetry [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

Opium Sandwich wrote:
I hate that they changed Rorschach's origin story. That was one of the things I was most looking forward to seeing on film.


They didn't change it. They shortened it.

Author:  BlackDoomShadow [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No, Mr. Dreiberg. I expect you to die! HahahaOHSHIT CRAAASH"
"Lol"

Author:  Opium Sandwich [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

SmilingSymmetry wrote:
Opium Sandwich wrote:
I hate that they changed Rorschach's origin story. That was one of the things I was most looking forward to seeing on film.


They didn't change it. They shortened it.

If Rorschach kills the guy with a meat cleaver now instead of handcuffing him and leaving him a saw, then they changed it. Not to mention the dogs.

Author:  VforVacation [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

How is it explained that blue lightning/explosions inspire humanity to unite?

Author:  The Guard [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

Quote:
Hmm...Well...I'm not sure what to think no about the ending...So we may get an odd Blue Lightning ending of sorts...What still isn't implied though is that it was Doc Manhattan's thing as Snyder hinted to previously. Unless the blue lightning itself is the only allusion.


Veidt alluded to it. In the newest draft, the world realizes it's Dr. Manhattan's energy signature after the attack (There are short sequences earlier in the script that show the government can detect this signature), and believes it's been attacked by Manhattan. This is what causes the governments of the world to put off nuclear war, and to unite forces.

Quote:
At which point in that script does it make this known to the audience, and how is it revealed? i.e. Who tells us that is what Blake was doing?


Adrian tells Dan and Rorschach what happened when he is confronted.

Quote:
The owl ship, with it's advanced technology, can't withstand the conditions and has to crash land when it reaches Karnak. So how does Blake get there, break in then get back to the US?


The Owlship was de-icing when they left it. How does Blake get there? Any number of ways, I suppose. It's hardly relevant to the story. How does he get to the island, swim? (I know, I know, he probably did swim).

Quote:
But from the trailer footage we see the expanding energy blast originate from ground level, with no lightning strike from above. In fact, the effects are exactly the same as when Dr. Manhattan teleports - this heavily suggests that there is no blue killer lightning in the film at all. Thankfully.


In the trailer, it does appear that the explosion originates at ground level (Possibly from a particular building, an Institute for...something...). The blue lightning in the script functions as a sort of beginning of a nuclear-like reaction, and begins this wave of killer energies that sweep through cities and blow people into ash, demolish buildings, etc. It's not exactly hard science, but then, neither are teleportation and psychic shockwaves.

Quote:
It was an awful scene where Dan uses remote control to make Archie smash through the wall of Karnak and crush Veidt. Yes, even though Archie crash landed, it had enough left to be able to take out the "bad guy", action movie style!


Oh come on, if Veidt has to die in a "cool" way, that's about ten times cooler a "You don't hear them coming" moment than an Owlarang is. And it had been de-icing.

Author:  BlackDoomShadow [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

I have to admit that if someone held a gun to my head and told me to pick and ending where Veidt dies, getting dramatically rammed by the Owlship sounds better. The thing is, the script I saw claims Laurie then torches him with the flamethrower...kind of a funny resolution to the flamethrower running gag.

Author:  The Guard [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

She doesn't torch him with a flamethrower, the Owlship's afterburners do when she and Dan leave Karnak.

Author:  fruityfallout [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

Does the "Pagiliacci" sequence show every flashback, or just the one where he's thrown out of the window? Are any of the transitions detailed in the script?

Is Hooded Justice established as missing, and being the cause of Viedt's grudge against Blake?

Does Sally's porno comic from the 40's fit in anywhere? I figured it did, I think it was in a poster, but I wasn't sure.

Author:  vdtdcutd5145 [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WATCHMEN TRANSFORMED

The Guard wrote:
Quote:
Hmm...Well...I'm not sure what to think no about the ending...So we may get an odd Blue Lightning ending of sorts...What still isn't implied though is that it was Doc Manhattan's thing as Snyder hinted to previously. Unless the blue lightning itself is the only allusion.


Quote:
Veidt alluded to it. In the newest draft, the world realizes it's Dr. Manhattan's energy signature after the attack (There are short sequences earlier in the script that show the government can detect this signature), and believes it's been attacked by Manhattan. This is what causes the governments of the world to put off nuclear war, and to unite forces.


Ahh...I'm searching through my copy of the GN because I swear there was a mention of where the Gov't was able to track him because of his signature as you mention here.

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