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Talk about the Watchmen comic book mini-series and film
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:08 am 
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BTW it was Terry Gilliam who said "Watchmen is unfilmable" and not Moore.


I know Gilliam said it, but I thought Moore came out in agreement too.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:50 am 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
I know Gilliam said it, but I thought Moore came out in agreement too.

Go ahead, provide a link to any interview/essay where Moore states these exact words "Watchmen is unfilmable".


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:46 pm 
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holtor wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
I know Gilliam said it, but I thought Moore came out in agreement too.

Go ahead, provide a link to any interview/essay where Moore states these exact words "Watchmen is unfilmable".


Any of these do you?

http://my.spill.com/profiles/blogs/947994:BlogPost:446718

http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/10/15/is-watchmen-unfilmable/

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/09/alan-moore-on-w.html

http://www.ifanboy.com/content/articles/Alan_Moore_on_Watchmen_Movie

http://www.film.com/features/story/watch-watchmen-not-alan-moore/17988619

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:40 am 
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Satan's Slut wrote:

The 1st, 2nd, 4th link simply tell rumors without any direct quotes, the 5th does not even contain the word "unfilmable" anywhere. The 3rd comes closest with claiming
Quote:
Moore said he has never watched any of the film adaptations of his comics creations (which have included "V for Vendetta," "From Hell," "Constantine" and "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen") and that he believes "Watchmen" is "inherently unfilmable."

But even there, the quote is strangely cut into pieces and distributed all over the sentence. Obviously parts of what Moore really said are missing. And of course the author does not bother to include why Moore would believe so, and he does not refer to any source for this particular quote (which is apparently different from the "hour-long phone call"). These are useless sources.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:38 am 
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Moore on movies
http://www.mtv.com/shared/movies/interv ... an_060315/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:03 am 
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AntoBlueberry wrote:


" I don't see how adapting it to another medium makes any sense at all. But that's me. I am a little cranky sometimes. "

Hahaha. Alan Moore is awesome.

Also, he says words to the effect of "I had to tell Terry Gilliam that it's unfilmable" in The Mindscape of Alan Moore (which is awesome and you should all buy it immediately if you haven't already done so).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:14 am 
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It's so easy to get the impression of Alan Moore as this cranky, opinionated, intimidating man. And while I'm sure he can be all these things, in all the interviews I've seen of him he's funny and personable, and despite his legendary reputation you feel like you could easily walk up to him on the street and shake his hand and he wouldn't glare you to death. How I love Alan Moore.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:18 am 
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Ominick wrote:
It's so easy to get the impression of Alan Moore as this cranky, opinionated, intimidating man. And while I'm sure he can be all these things, in all the interviews I've seen of him he's funny and personable, and despite his legendary reputation you feel like you could easily walk up to him on the street and shake his hand and he wouldn't glare you to death. How I love Alan Moore.


I agree completely.

If you haven't seen them, the interviews he did with Stewart Lee (both on radio and TV) are on youtube and are extremely funny. I think his reputation is really just reserved for film- and comics-industry people who have screwed him over in the past.

edit: I assume these are already linked to from this site, but just in case:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Cam2kK7J_8k
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jE2kDtXzTUA


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:49 pm 
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Manton wrote:
Comedian Carl put it perfectly. Under the ramifications of putting the entire novel on celluloid, it's unfilmable. Luckily for us, Zack can use a hatchet well :D


Oh yeah, Zack is really good at hatchetting...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:58 pm 
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" I don't see how adapting it to another medium makes any sense at all. But that's me. I am a little cranky sometimes. "

This is particularyly humorous coming from the guy who pinched literary characters from writers like H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, R.L. Stevenson, Edgar Rice Burroughs, and Bram Stoker, mulched them all into a 'Secret Seven' styled boy's own adventure, and put them in a COMIC!

Ya gotta love him. He's as full of contradictions as the next bloke.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:45 pm 
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Mister Pain wrote:
" I don't see how adapting it to another medium makes any sense at all. But that's me. I am a little cranky sometimes. "

This is particularyly humorous coming from the guy who pinched literary characters from writers like H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, R.L. Stevenson, Edgar Rice Burroughs, and Bram Stoker, mulched them all into a 'Secret Seven' styled boy's own adventure, and put them in a COMIC!

Ya gotta love him. He's as full of contradictions as the next bloke.


ALAN MOORE IS RORCHACH! O.o

*coughs* Sorry, couldn't resist. My bad. Carry on. 8-)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:57 am 
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Its a lot easier in my opinion to take a character from a novel or written series, and adapt that to a visual/written medium than to take a visual/written medium and translate that to a purely visual medium.

Also he didn't just lift the characters from those other sources, the characters he uses are a pastiche of those in their original source material, thus he has fully adapted them to his purposes. Mina Harker in the Stoker novel is really a minor character, Quartermain is much older and not very much like his character in the Haggard stories, etc.

His point is more to do with the specifics of the comics medium, especially the visual symbology, which the reader can go back to and refer back to as part of the reading experience. Unless you are watching the movie on DVD or Blu-Ray, this is not an option available to you.

Also the film itself must work in context of a cinematic experience, therefore whilst I am sure there will be masses of these symbols dotted throughout the movie, if only for the fans when they see it on DVD, most cinema audiences will fail to notice them, and therefore lose much of the Watchmen experience when you read the original graphic novel. Its not about using other characters from other source material, its about what you can do specifically in the comics medium that you cannot really do effectively in any other medium.

Watchmen was written to be a story told specifically for that medium, and translating it to a film means losing much of that discovery of symbolism as you read the graphic novel.

I don't doubt that the story itself can (and should be) faithfully adapted (squid and all, but that's another thread). The level of detail applied in the movie looks as if they are trying to implant as much for the fans as possible in terms of easter eggs and nice references, but the experience itself unless you are forwarding back and forwards throughout the film (a tedious job) means you lose part of the experience from reading the GN, and that is the argument I believe Moore is making.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:21 am 
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It's not about the ease of the translation, or the mediums thereof. Complexity isn't an issue when it comes to representing themes and symbolic characterisation on the screen. The movie should work like a first read of the GN. My point was about the appropriation and rewrite of someone elses characters, and the contradictory nature of Moore's statements on the one hand (Watchmen), and actions on the other (League of Extraordinary Gentlemen). The point I was making stands. Many fans here have said that if Snyder changes a hair on this beasts head, he should change all the names and not call it Watchmen. Moore himself has gone much, much further than that, with characters loved by generations of readers.

Your other point is very interesting, and raises an interesting issue. There is more than one way to watch a film. Most movie goers sit there absorbed, and take a ride. At the other end of the spectrum are people who have taken film studies, or who write scripts etc.

People who know how to read a film.

I bet my boots Snyder has been to a few classes at film school. I'm hoping he has taken this beastie, wrangled the symbols and the layers into time-based media semiotics and back, and done made it his own. Like Moore did, with them there Gothic/Victorian characters.

I STRONGLY reccomend James Monaco's 'How To Read A Film' to anybody who hasn't read it.
PDF version is here.


http://www.readfilm.com/HTRbook.html


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