feliciano182 wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
One of the main themes of Watchmen (GN) was exploring what would happen if ordinary people with no 'super powers' became 'masked vigilantes', or 'costumed adventurers', and how the arrival of Dr Manhattan would change them, and the world. The 'Superhero' genre has very clearly defined tropes - check the Wikipedia page - and the Watchmen GN subverted nearly all of them; especially by showing what would happen in the real world if ordinary people tried to become 'superheroes'.
Uhm, I've said this before myself, and thus concluded that it's not a
typical superhero story.
The GN certainly isn't, no. That's the point; the only person in the story who has any kind of superpower is Doctor Manhattan, and even he is far from a traditional superhero. Nobody in the GN is a superhero in any sense of the word.
feliciano182 wrote:
I think even Alan Moore said something about how the "Tales Of The Black Freighter" was something he thought about while taking in account the kind of world were living in at the time of Watchmen, if you have superheroes everywhere, then what would comics be about ? Not superheroes.
I've never seen that quote before. However, the word 'superhero' is never used once in the GN, and none of the characters - bar Dr Manhattan - have superpowers; unlike the film.
feliciano182 wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
In ZS's Watchmen we see the main characters punching through concrete; being thrown into concrete walls hard enough to smash chunks out of them, and get up; making impossible leaps/jumps/drops with no adverse effects where there should be, and many other 'super-powered' feats. None of this is played for satire, and runs completely against the message of the GN. The DC of the film even adds in 'Magic Disappearing Rorschach', for no reason whatsoever.
You know, I remember a certain character
catching a bullet in the comic, not to mention one who invented a hovering vehicle capable of carrying several people, and another one who single-handedly stopped a city riot.
The bullet catch - while ultimately unrealistic in the real world - is made much more plausible in the Watchmen universe of the GN. Veidt is constantly being shown as the absolute pinnacle of the human physical specimen, however, even he says he wasn't sure he could do it, and he does not escape unscathed - we are cleverly primed to suspend our disbelief just enough to give the bullet catch a pass.
The Owl Ship - IIRC - is just another example of 'Manhattan Tech', which demonstrates how Dr Manhattan has influenced the world, along with viable electric cars and the fabric Rorschach's mask is made from.
Who stops a city riot single-handed?
feliciano182 wrote:
Though I can see where you're coming from, it is still clear that what we see in the movie is just meant to be embellishment, people still left the theater concluding that none of the characters in the movie were super-powered by any means with the exception of Dr. Manhattan, if we were to assert that people that can land with their backs on their walls intact in every movie we see are superpowered beings, then all Jean Claude Van Damme movies have basically been tame science fiction.
Even then, how many action scenes in total are in this movie ? Ver few, and most of them quite short, the film is not affected by any of them, not a single event is affected by the stylization (sp) of these scenes.
That's the problem - in my experience, most of the people I know who haven't read the GN thought the characters all had powers, then weren't sure - they left confused.
The difference with JCVD movies is that none are based on one of the most acclaimed GNs of all-time, which didn't set up the main characters as having any kind of superpowers. You can expect a certain level of excess from a JCVD film. Having said that, I cannot recall any of his films in which the laws of physics are blatantly disregarded.
Of the 4 films I know of that feature someone punching through a solid wall, or concrete, 3 of them have explanations, and one doesn't. Terminator 2 - he's a friggin' Terminator; The Matrix - it's a computer simulation; Robocop - he's friggin' Robocop; Watchmen; ermmmm.... He's a government employed masked vigilante with no superpowers... How does he punch a chunk out of a concrete pillar?
feliciano182 wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
The scene I mention in Kick-Ass has added punch owing to the fact that the film is set up as having strong elements of comedy; from the moment the scene with the car-thieves begins, the comedy is suddenly gone, and events take a brutal turn. In complete contrast with what's gone before we are shown a realistic and brutal fight, and a shocking stabbing; the film leaves us in no doubt whatsoever what would happen if an ordinary person tried to put on a silly suit and fight crime in the real world.
I could perfectly agree if the movie didn't fall flat on it's face not half an hour after.
Which is why I said 'elements' of it.
feliciano182 wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
Watchmen (the GN) is much more subtle about showing us this, but it does show us time and time again that these are real people, and there are real-world consequences to their actions - both large and small.
All of which was still in the movie, Rorschach was still driven insane by his crusade against crime, the first Nite-Owl was still brutally murdered by gang members, Laurie still was an inmature girl, and Ozymandias, with all his resources and powers, decided genocide was the solution to genocide.
Indeed, but the message is lessened when it becomes 'our superpowered betters have problems', instead of exploring what makes ordinary people think they can be 'superheroes' and try and sort out humanity's problems. Because the film portrays these people as having super abilities, the audience does not question their right to appoint themselves above 'us' as judge, jury and executioner, because it is what is expected of a superpowered human; get bitten by a radioactive spider and develop powers? Become a superhero. Land on Earth and find out that you have extraordinary powers because you're an alien? Become a superhero.
Snyder misses the chance to challenge the audience to ask themselves questions like "Why are they doing this? What gives them the right?"
feliciano182 wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
Rorschach's 'Rumrunner Leap' in the film serves as one of the greatest examples of this, and clearly demonstrates that ZS simply did not get many elements of the GN.
"Rumrunner Leap" ? What ?
Seriously? There's a whole thread on it in this forum...
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