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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:18 pm 
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You realize that directly insulting the author of Watchmen and the fanbase you claim to be a part of isn't helping your case, right?

Watchmen is bigger than this forum. It's bigger than all of us. There are hundreds, if not thousands of comic-book fans who respect Watchmen as "the Citizen Kane of graphic novels," yet have never set foot in this place. And so what if we're the largest fansite online? If there were hundreds of fansites such as this one, what would it prove? Would that make the graphic novel any more of a landmark in comic book history than it already is?

Furthermore, it seems to me that a true fan of Watchmen would be more concerned with celebrating the excellence of this graphic novel and preserving its status in comic history, doing our best to ensure that DC doesn't do anything to undermine the book's integrity. A sequel, for example, that would definitively answer the fate of Rorschach's journal, thus destroying the narrative's ambiguity. Or a spin-off that would conflict with the book's canon. Or a reboot that would only be an imitation at best or a mockery at worst.

The book at present is perfect. Leave it be. We as a fanbase shouldn't need some new continuations to hold our attention or shiny toys to collect. We don't need those things to feel good about ourselves and we don't need them to spread the fanbase. As long as Watchmen remains in publication and as long as its status as a groundbreaking comic is remembered, the new fans will always come.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:40 am 
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This was me a couple years ago.
I even started writing one (a sequel) *shudder*
But, I read the GN several more times and with a lil convincing from DDC and Curi, I realized that no matter how brilliant the story, or how layered it is... its a self defeating concept.
Watchmen is perfect as it is.
And since there is no 'loose ends' or any other pressing matters generally covered in sequel territory, a "Watchmen" continuation, no matter how indirect, is tantamout to cheap fan service that exists only to generate money.
A "rip-off".

If your idea is THAT good and is generally separated from the watchmen universe, it should be able to stand entirely alone.

Watchmen's characters are done, their arcs complete.
To generate new problems involving them would be pointless as anything they say or experience would be a mere echo to what already was.
Dragging it out for the sake of its own existence is sad.
Useless. Futile. Hollow.

It took me a while to accept this.

When I first read Watchmen my ass was a wad of fucking cookie dough...
by my 11th readthrough, I was carved out of wood.

I got it.
I understood.

Welcome to Fight Club.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:48 am 
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watchman wrote:
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Cool story bro.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:08 pm 
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I can't believe I missed this fight !

And I sure as hell can't believe that there are people like watchman out there.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:02 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
And I sure as hell can't believe that there are people like watchman out there.

It's crazy, right?

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
And I sure as hell can't believe that there are people like watchman out there.

It's crazy, right?


And yet it's true.

*Ominous, sad music*.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:45 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
And I sure as hell can't believe that there are people like watchman out there.

It's crazy, right?

I used to be like that

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Quote:
You realize that directly insulting the author of Watchmen and the fanbase you claim to be a part of isn't helping your case, right?

I’m just stating the facts. You can take it as you please.

Quote:
Furthermore, it seems to me that a true fan of Watchmen would be more concerned with celebrating the excellence of this graphic novel and preserving its status in comic history, doing our best to ensure that DC doesn't do anything to undermine the book's integrity. A sequel, for example, that would definitively answer the fate of Rorschach's journal, thus destroying the narrative's ambiguity. Or a spin-off that would conflict with the book's canon. Or a reboot that would only be an imitation at best or a mockery at worst.

Why are you so single-minded? Why can you only imagine a direct sequel?! There are SO SO SO MANY more options.

Quote:
The book at present is perfect. Leave it be. We as a fanbase shouldn't need some new continuations to hold our attention or shiny toys to collect. We don't need those things to feel good about ourselves and we don't need them to spread the fanbase. As long as Watchmen remains in publication and as long as its status as a groundbreaking comic is remembered, the new fans will always come.

The book itself doesn’t need to be touched. The story is self-containing. That doesn’t mean there can’t be things to expand on. Re-imagine. Offer a new and fresh perspective.

Look at the movie. Created new fans. Brought the Watchmen name out into mainstream MORE than the book ever did. Offered new views. After all, there were things in the movie that were different, and some were done better than the novel. But even if you disagree, at least now there is an option. At least now there is something else to talk about besides the book. And that’s my point. Sadly, all you people can see is a direct sequel. How sad!


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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:51 am 
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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:01 am 
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watchman wrote:
Quote:
You realize that directly insulting the author of Watchmen and the fanbase you claim to be a part of isn't helping your case, right?

I’m just stating the facts. You can take it as you please.

Quote:
Furthermore, it seems to me that a true fan of Watchmen would be more concerned with celebrating the excellence of this graphic novel and preserving its status in comic history, doing our best to ensure that DC doesn't do anything to undermine the book's integrity. A sequel, for example, that would definitively answer the fate of Rorschach's journal, thus destroying the narrative's ambiguity. Or a spin-off that would conflict with the book's canon. Or a reboot that would only be an imitation at best or a mockery at worst.

Why are you so single-minded? Why can you only imagine a direct sequel?! There are SO SO SO MANY more options.

Quote:
The book at present is perfect. Leave it be. We as a fanbase shouldn't need some new continuations to hold our attention or shiny toys to collect. We don't need those things to feel good about ourselves and we don't need them to spread the fanbase. As long as Watchmen remains in publication and as long as its status as a groundbreaking comic is remembered, the new fans will always come.

The book itself doesn’t need to be touched. The story is self-containing. That doesn’t mean there can’t be things to expand on. Re-imagine. Offer a new and fresh perspective.

Look at the movie. Created new fans. Brought the Watchmen name out into mainstream MORE than the book ever did. Offered new views. After all, there were things in the movie that were different, and some were done better than the novel. But even if you disagree, at least now there is an option. At least now there is something else to talk about besides the book. And that’s my point. Sadly, all you people can see is a direct sequel. How sad!


Nobody here can see a direct sequel, and nobody wants one.
Your MGS comparison is nonsensical as each MGS game leaves you with many questions, whereas all questions are answered and everything is given closure at the end of Watchmen, apart from the ambiguity, which is placed there in order to draw a response from the reader, not to set up a spin-off or sequel.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:36 am 
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watchman wrote:
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Cool story bro.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:08 am 
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watchman wrote:

The book itself doesn’t need to be touched. The story is self-containing. That doesn’t mean there can’t be things to expand on. Re-imagine. Offer a new and fresh perspective.

Look at the movie. Created new fans. Brought the Watchmen name out into mainstream MORE than the book ever did. Offered new views. After all, there were things in the movie that were different, and some were done better than the novel. But even if you disagree, at least now there is an option. At least now there is something else to talk about besides the book. And that’s my point. Sadly, all you people can see is a direct sequel. How sad!


There's no way to create a sequel (direct or indirect) or spin-off without touching the source material, unless you're Terry Gilliam's "Dream Trilogy", which only share a common theme.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:59 am 
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WJK wrote:
watchman wrote:

The book itself doesn’t need to be touched. The story is self-containing. That doesn’t mean there can’t be things to expand on. Re-imagine. Offer a new and fresh perspective.

Look at the movie. Created new fans. Brought the Watchmen name out into mainstream MORE than the book ever did. Offered new views. After all, there were things in the movie that were different, and some were done better than the novel. But even if you disagree, at least now there is an option. At least now there is something else to talk about besides the book. And that’s my point. Sadly, all you people can see is a direct sequel. How sad!


There's no way to create a sequel (direct or indirect) or spin-off without touching the source material, unless you're Terry Gilliam's "Dream Trilogy", which only share a common theme.


i think that's exactly what watchman is trying to suggest.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:05 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
WJK wrote:
watchman wrote:

The book itself doesn’t need to be touched. The story is self-containing. That doesn’t mean there can’t be things to expand on. Re-imagine. Offer a new and fresh perspective.

Look at the movie. Created new fans. Brought the Watchmen name out into mainstream MORE than the book ever did. Offered new views. After all, there were things in the movie that were different, and some were done better than the novel. But even if you disagree, at least now there is an option. At least now there is something else to talk about besides the book. And that’s my point. Sadly, all you people can see is a direct sequel. How sad!


There's no way to create a sequel (direct or indirect) or spin-off without touching the source material, unless you're Terry Gilliam's "Dream Trilogy", which only share a common theme.


i think that's exactly what watchman is trying to suggest.


Sounds more like he just wants what DC wants.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:12 am 
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WJK wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
WJK wrote:
watchman wrote:

The book itself doesn’t need to be touched. The story is self-containing. That doesn’t mean there can’t be things to expand on. Re-imagine. Offer a new and fresh perspective.

Look at the movie. Created new fans. Brought the Watchmen name out into mainstream MORE than the book ever did. Offered new views. After all, there were things in the movie that were different, and some were done better than the novel. But even if you disagree, at least now there is an option. At least now there is something else to talk about besides the book. And that’s my point. Sadly, all you people can see is a direct sequel. How sad!


There's no way to create a sequel (direct or indirect) or spin-off without touching the source material, unless you're Terry Gilliam's "Dream Trilogy", which only share a common theme.


i think that's exactly what watchman is trying to suggest.


Sounds more like he just wants what DC wants.


i didn't really want to get into this discussion, and i haven't read all of watchman's posts, buuuuuut...
in the first post of the thread
Quote:
I would love to see a spiritual sequel. Not a direct story continuation... no, that's not needed. But using the same type of formula, have a new cast that looks at the modern hero types and modern threats and challenges. Anyone else would like that?


to me that sounds like what he wants is a new book based on the watchmen formula, but completely new, new universe, new characters etc, but grounded in a more contemporary setting.

not entirely shure why DC would even need to be the ones to publish it, it wouldn't even need to be called "watchmen" in any way,

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:32 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
WJK wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
WJK wrote:
watchman wrote:

The book itself doesn’t need to be touched. The story is self-containing. That doesn’t mean there can’t be things to expand on. Re-imagine. Offer a new and fresh perspective.

Look at the movie. Created new fans. Brought the Watchmen name out into mainstream MORE than the book ever did. Offered new views. After all, there were things in the movie that were different, and some were done better than the novel. But even if you disagree, at least now there is an option. At least now there is something else to talk about besides the book. And that’s my point. Sadly, all you people can see is a direct sequel. How sad!


There's no way to create a sequel (direct or indirect) or spin-off without touching the source material, unless you're Terry Gilliam's "Dream Trilogy", which only share a common theme.


i think that's exactly what watchman is trying to suggest.


Sounds more like he just wants what DC wants.


i didn't really want to get into this discussion, and i haven't read all of watchman's posts, buuuuuut...
in the first post of the thread
Quote:
I would love to see a spiritual sequel. Not a direct story continuation... no, that's not needed. But using the same type of formula, have a new cast that looks at the modern hero types and modern threats and challenges. Anyone else would like that?


to me that sounds like what he wants is a new book based on the watchmen formula, but completely new, new universe, new characters etc, but grounded in a more contemporary setting.

not entirely shure why DC would even need to be the ones to publish it, it wouldn't even need to be called "watchmen" in any way,


Well in that case, Watchman, I have some suggestions for you:
Black Summer by Warren Ellis
Planetary by Warren Ellis
Wanted by Mark Millar
The Boys by Garth Ennis
Top Ten by Alan Moore

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:41 pm 
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...
ziller?

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:54 pm 
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NiteOwl wrote:
...
ziller?

Nope. I was suspecting Smutty or AYB myself.

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 Post subject: Re: A spiritual sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:57 pm 
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o_o *iz puzzled*

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